Another Origin Story

This post is basically the next chapter of the story that I told in what became my first post on this blog (whose title, appropriately, starts with the words “Of Beginnings”). In that post, I made reference to the many possible “beginnings” that I could have written about with regard to Jen and me, but then zeroed in on the one specific story that I wanted to tell—which was really a kind of pre-origin story for our relationship, the events of which predated our actually meeting or getting to know each other. This time, I want to tell the story of our actual first meeting(s)…and most particularly, of what I have always remembered about our very first conversation.

I have, perhaps, less of a compelling reason for wanting to tell this story, at this particular time, than I had when I wrote the previous one. At the start of that one, I set my urge to write about the beginnings of Jen’s and my relationship in the context of where I was at in trying to process and adjust to our divorce. That was over three years ago (long predating the existence of this blog, whose inaugural post it eventually became), at a time when I was only just starting to recover a semblance of equilibrium after a year-plus of emotional turmoil, struggle, and despair. (I don’t think I had made this connection until just this moment, but about four months later, in what looks in hindsight like another expression of the same fixation on our “beginnings” that prompted me to write that story, I stopped in Morris on the first leg of my trip to the Grand Canyon, and visited the park where Jen and I got married—on, of all dates, the 23rd anniversary of our actual wedding day. I wrote about that experience here.) I’m in a fairly different place now, and I find myself ruminating on Jen and our relationship much less these days than previously. So, why write another story about our “beginnings” now? I could cite various reasons, I suppose. I mean, for starters, ruminating “less” doesn’t mean not ruminating at all; memories like these still sometimes occupy my thoughts just “because.” Also, the story of how Jen and I initially connected is something that I have frequently thought about as a contrast to my mostly frustrating and discouraging efforts at dating, post-divorce, and could easily be made into a vehicle for venting about how very difficult and unsatisfying and fraught and even, in some ways, misguided the whole enterprise of “dating” feels to me. No doubt I will, in fact, have some things to say about that in the course of this post. Still, it’s not like I’ve been doing much in the way of trying to date recently, so that rationale still doesn’t really address the “why now” question. Honestly, I’m not sure that there really is much of an answer to that question, beyond simply “because I’m in the mood to write something.” The desire to eventually write this “next chapter” has been kicking around in my head, off and on, ever since I wrote the previous story, and now is when I happen to have gotten around to it. And that’s reason enough.

I tried to describe the general context of my life at the time when Jen and I met at the start of the previous story, so I won’t recap that information in detail here. But in broad outline: It was the fall of our freshman year of college, at the University of Minnesota Morris; I was in an ambiguous relationship status with a previous girlfriend, who had broken up with me a couple weeks ago but with whom my relationship had subsequently sort of resumed; due to the events of the previous story, I knew of the existence of this person named Jen, who sounded like someone I would like to know; and she, entirely independently, was at least dimly aware of my existence, via a separate friend-of-a-friend connection. In fact, just days before the events that I’m about to relate, she had been “dragged along” (that was how she would later describe it) by her friend Becca to my dorm room, on the evening of Sunday, November 1st (1992), to meet my best friend/roommate (then named Dan) and myself…but as fate would have it, I wasn’t there at the time, so a first-meeting-that-could-have-been had failed to materialize (but I don’t think I was at all aware of this until later).

Through some combination of the arbitrary whims of fate and the fact that we all, in my immediate social circle, frequented the weekly social gatherings hosted by Professor W. in his home in these first months of our college experience, Thursdays loom large in the story of how Jen and I came to know each other. My previous story focused on my first becoming aware of Jen’s existence via events that took place on Thursday, October 22nd, and the event that forms the heart of this current story took place exactly two weeks later, on Thursday, November 5th. Technically, however, our actual first meeting probably happened earlier that week. It was not really significant or memorable in any way, and I’m extremely sketchy on the details at this point, but it definitely took place sometime between that “missed encounter” on Sunday evening and the actually important one that would occur on Thursday. The setting was the food service (cafeteria) building on campus, during either a lunch or a dinner sometime during that first week of November. The way I remember it, I was already sitting at a table and eating with one or more friends and/or acquaintances when another small cluster of people, some of whom we knew, approached our table and joined us. I’ve always remembered Jenny, my still-sort-of-girlfriend, being one of them, and imagined that she sort of had Jen “in tow” as a new acquaintance whom she was introducing to others in her circle (like me)…but I actually have to question that memory a bit. For one thing, I have no memory or basis for believing that Jenny and Jen ever actually hung out or became acquainted beyond the level of classmates, even though it was Jenny’s reaction to Jen on a previous occasion (and subsequent relating of it to me) that had first put Jen on my own radar as a potential friend (see previous story). Also, given that Becca—who definitely had become friends with Jen by this point—had been determined to introduce her to Dan (Larkin) and me just a few days before this, the role that my memory has assigned to Jenny arguably makes much more sense if it was actually played by Becca. But however that may be, what I (dimly) recall is that a small group of friends/acquaintances of mine joined me and others at a table, and Jen was with them, and introductions were made. Since I had been interested in making the acquaintance of this interesting-sounding person whom Jenny had told me about, I was pleased to now be meeting her. Alas, though, this initial encounter amounted to nothing beyond simply being introduced. Jen, I think, said very little, very much as one would expect for someone who was not only very shy, but also being introduced to a bunch of strangers-to-her who all knew each other, in a noisy public space filled with comings and goings, and likely with no particular agenda to get to know or make an impression on me or anyone else present. Also, I have the sense that I may have already been nearly finished eating by the time they joined us, and perhaps even left before long to head off to a class or who-knows-what (though that’s mostly just speculation). In any event, nothing immediately came of our being introduced; honestly, the event was so insignificant that it’s a little surprising, looking back, that we even recognized each other the next time we met.

That “next time,” it turned out, transpired at Professor W.’s house on the Thursday evening of the same week. Alas, I remember virtually nothing about the specific scenario that led to the two of us conversing that evening. My memory of the event begins with the two of us sitting next to each other on the floor, in the living room, ostensibly part of a larger circle of people gathered there, yet (I think) both slightly physically withdrawn from the people to either side of us. Was it pure chance that the two of us ended up adjacent to each other? Or, had I deliberately sat down next to her, since she was someone whom I was interested in getting to know? Or was it more a matter of ending up in proximity to each other through being accompanied by one or another of our mutual friends/acquaintances? Did we even recognize each other on our own, or were we re-introduced? To the extent that she had any sense of who I was, was I essentially Becca’s friend/Dan’s roommate, or Jenny’s friend, or just someone whom she had been introduced to in Food Service the other day? I have nothing in the way of answers to these questions. All I do have—and even this is a memory that I don’t entirely trust—is a vague sense that our physical position, somewhat back and apart from the rest of the people sitting there in a circle on the living room floor, reflected a shared emotional separation from the generally lively social interactions dominating the room, and that this, more than anything, perhaps accounts for our falling into conversation with each other, despite being virtual strangers. Being slightly withdrawn from the general hubbub like this was probably the norm for Jen at these events, so her side of this doesn’t feel like it requires any explanation. As for me, I may conceivably have made a conscious choice to initiate a one-on-one conversation rather than partaking in whatever larger discussion was happening around us, or it may have been something else (or a mixture of factors, of course). I do think that, in the weeks since Jenny had initially broken up with me, I had been feeling a bit low-key, and more inclined toward quiet personal conversation than lively social interactions in large groups, much of the time, and that this remained the case even after we had resumed acting as though we were not “broken up.” Separately from this, too, I recall a general sense of losing some of my initial enthusiasm for engaging with the crowd at Professor W.’s gatherings as that first quarter of my college experience progressed—partly, I think, as part of a larger reaction (a petty one, I might add, which reflects rather poorly on the me of this period) to discovering, upon entering a larger, and more diverse and thoughtful and broad-minded, social world in the transition from high school to college, that I was rather less special and smart and unique than I had thought I was. But I digress! The point is, whatever the immediate social and/or emotional antecedents, it transpired that this Jen person and I started chatting with each other, there on the floor of Professor W.’s living room on this Thursday evening in early November.

It can’t have been the only, or even the first, thing that we talked about, but the memorable part of the conversation—the bit that would lodge itself indelibly in my brain, and that I still remember vividly almost thirty years later—began when Jen made a remark about her outfit. I could be wrong, but I want to say that she was wearing a sort of magenta sweater that was perhaps a couple sizes large on her but that was a particular favorite of hers at the time. This, anyway, is certainly how I picture the scene in my head. And it was specifically the oversized character of what she was wearing that, for whatever reason, she commented on, by mentioning that she tended in general to favor somewhat large, “baggy” clothing, and adding that her mother had on occasion expressed concern over this, thinking that it was a sign that she had low self-esteem. That didn’t immediately register as making any sense to me, so—with zero forethought or pause for reflection of any kind—I blurted out my immediate, genuine reaction, which was: “Really!? I would have thought it meant the exact opposite of that.” To which, with considerable appreciation and enthusiasm, Jen replied “That’s what I always tell her!” And in this simple moment of bonding over a shared intuition whose details were immediately mutually understood and required no elaboration, something “magical” happened: a moment of mutual recognition. We couldn’t have been conversing for more than a few minutes; we were, by any reasonable definition, still near-strangers; but I knew, in that moment, “here is a person like me,” and it was clear that she felt the same thing. It was that feeling of suddenly seeing, in someone’s eyes, the entire, real, human, thoughtful, vulnerable, relatable person behind them, and feeling that you know that person. Obviously, our conversation will have continued beyond this point—and almost certainly, despite what I just said about it not needing to be elaborated, we must have talked explicitly about what we both meant: that in choosing to wear “baggy” clothing, Jen was not trying to hide a body that she was insecure about, but rather showing that her self-esteem didn’t depend upon other people’s reactions to her physical appearance. But it doesn’t really matter (nor does it matter whether or not this shared assessment of ours was even accurate!), which is doubtless why I don’t remember any of what passed between us beyond this moment. For all intents and purposes, we became friends in that instant of mutual recognition.

I would not like to be misunderstood here. I am certainly not, for instance, trying to imply anything like “love at first sight.” The experience that I’m trying to describe was not specifically romantic, for one thing; in fact, the one other time in my life when I can remember a similar feeling was during the conversation, four years earlier, when a 14-year-old me first met the person who would become my lifelong best (male) friend, Dan/Larkin. Also, and importantly, I did not remotely come away from this conversation with Jen thinking of her as a romantic prospect. The fact that I was chatting with my future wife was certainly not among the things that I felt I “knew” in that moment of recognition between us. In retrospect, there’s actually something sort of remarkable about how completely true this is. I mean, I had just met someone whom I would find myself falling for just a few months down the road, and our initial conversation had explicitly touched on the subject of her body image and how she liked to dress…yet my first memories of “noticing” her physically come only later. I literally remember (or least think I remember) how she was dressed on this evening (because it was relevant to our conversation, and also just because that sweater was so characteristic for her at the time), but nothing about any particular impression that she made on me aesthetically, positive or negative. I’m belaboring this point for several reasons: First, just to dispel any suspicion (as I said at the start of this paragraph) that I’m over-romanticizing our first meeting, or any idea that we, like, gazed into each others’ eyes and immediately fell in love, or whatever. Second, I suppose, to sort of preserve the…for lack of a better word, “purity,” of the memory—or, putting it more bluntly, to make it clear that our moment of connection wasn’t significant and memorable to me merely (or really, even partly) because I was a horny almost-19-year-old meeting a girl with whom I thought I might get lucky. But even more importantly, I emphasize this because of the dramatic contrast that it reflects between my experience of meeting Jen at (almost) 19 on the one hand, and my experiences trying to date in my 40s on the other.

“Dating,” in the sense that I’m using the word here, is something that I never actually did until after my divorce. I’m talking about the absurd social ritual in which two virtual strangers identify each other as possible romantic prospects, and make plans to meet each other in a public place (typically an eatery of some sort), where they then pass some indeterminate amount of time making conversation with each other and sort of “trying each other on” (under the most forced and artificial circumstances imaginable) as potential intimate companions and/or life partners, even though as of yet they can’t even plausibly call each other friends. You show up (maybe to a venue that you’ve never been to before and is therefore at least a little disorienting in itself; maybe to a more familiar a place that you yourself suggested, but are worried she may dislike or be judging in some way), clear the hurdle of recognizing your date based on your memory of a few pictures you saw on her dating profile, sit down together, and maybe order food (even though it’s super-awkward to spend your first five minutes together staring at a menu). And then you start talking, and you do your best to engage in a meaningful way with this stranger about whom you, as yet, have no clue how you even feel. You want to make a good impression, of course, but obviously you also want to be authentic—”be yourself.” But in this artificial and wildly unfamiliar context, you don’t even feel very clear as to what “being yourself” entails, even if normally you’re someone (as I am) who feels he “knows himself” pretty well. And if even I am not sure of this, then how can she be expected to glean any sense of who I actually am? Just what impressions is she forming of me, anyway? Also, how much do I even care what she thinks of me? I mean, I haven’t yet figured out what I think of her, so… Hmm. Can I see any kind of future for myself with this person? Actually, forget that; how about just, do I think I might want to see this person again after tonight? Or, if that much, at least, is easy… Can I imagine a physical relationship with this person? Could she be attracted to me? Am I attracted to her? What assumptions or expectations is she operating under with respect to this side of things, I wonder? Even if I were clear about my own feelings, to what extent would it be good for me to give her any indication of them? Is she as uncertain about all of this as I am right now, or is this easy for her? If the latter, is it easy because she’s already decided she’s not interested, or (even worse!) is she actually feeling like we’re really clicking and things are great, and it’s only me who is confused and unsure? Also, can I somehow keep this flood of internal questions and anxieties in check enough to remain focused on whatever conversation we’re having?

No version of the process of traversing the series of social and emotional barriers on the path from being strangers to romantic partners is without its stresses and anxieties; still, it should go without saying that none of the crap that I just spewed out in the paragraph above was clogging my brain on that Thursday evening in November of 1992 when I first interacted with Jen. Part of the reason, of course, was that our conversation was unplanned, and took place in the context of an ordinary social situation as opposed to a “date.” Just as important, I was in no sense “looking” at the time, so there was no automatic impulse to wonder whether or not this new female acquaintance might be a “prospect.” As a result, our embryonic relationship was free to develop organically, into whatever it had the potential to become (even if that had been nothing!), at its own pace, unburdened by the weight of charged expectations or anxious over-scrutiny or arbitrary dating rules. I can’t, for example, say when it was that I did first start “noticing” Jen physically (that is, when I became conscious of being attracted to her), because I wasn’t constantly interrogating myself from the day we met as to whether or not I felt any attraction. I can only say that, over the next couple of months, such feelings very much did materialize for me (taking me by surprise a little, even, as they did so!). And I just can’t help but to feel—however wildly impractical this point of view may be for a divorced forty-something adult who would really like to meet someone, and fall in love again, at some point—that this model, not the “dating” model, represents the only remotely sane or plausible way for a new romantic relationship to develop. I understand, of course, that there is virtually no chance of this actually happening. I was able to luck into Jen as a freshman in college because the social world that one inhabits at that age is structured in such a way as to make this sort of thing possible. The same is not the case in the world that I inhabit now. The hard truth is that, for the most part, people my age do the “dating” thing not because they think it’s super-fun (though some people, incomprehensibly, actually do seem to enjoy it), or even that it’s particularly likely to succeed, but because there just aren’t really any other options. I know this. But still, the whole procedure just seems nuts to me.

To return to my actual story, though: Three months would pass, after our initial conversation at Professor W.’s house that night, before Jen and I would become “a couple,” but it didn’t even take a full week for us to become full-on friends. I know this, even though I don’t even remember the end of that first conversation—much less when we saw each other next, or anything about how that came to happen. I know because it so happened that the following Thursday, the 12th, was my 19th birthday…and what I vividly do remember is Jen and Becca showing up at my dorm room at some point on that day, bearing birthday gifts for me. On the whole, I remember this birthday as a bit of a letdown. It passed with relatively little fanfare or celebration, and I received very few bona fide gifts. (Probably a card and a check from my parents, which—don’t get me wrong—I appreciated, but which didn’t feel the same as opening an actual present, in the presence of the giver. But, such was the price of being a newly independent college student, I supposed.) The still-sort-of-girlfriend, too, would kind of disappoint me. She also gave me a card, but it was such a generic and impersonal one (a stark contrast to her custom during our better times) that she felt compelled to apologize for it—the said apology taking the place of any personal message that I might have hoped to find inside the card. Later, we would go out for a birthday dinner together, but even then I recall feeling like I somehow didn’t have her full attention. Mainly, I think, I had hoped to take advantage of the dinner as a chance to finally have the much-needed conversation about our relationship status (after having broken up, then subsequently resumed acting as though we were a couple) that she had been putting off for almost two weeks at this point (a red flag if ever there was one!), but she made it clear right away that she wasn’t willing to talk about it yet. The gifts from Jen and Becca must have come earlier in the day, before this dinner…but still, the point I’m making here is that they were easily the highlight of my entire birthday.

The gifts—which were, in fact, the only honest-to-god birthday presents that I received from anyone that year—were presented as being from Jen and Becca (one item from each of them), but it could not have been more obvious that the whole thing had been Jen’s idea. And the contrast with the meaningless card from Jenny was particularly sharp, because Jen (who, remember, had known me for all of seven days at this point!) managed to come up with a gift (at Pamida, no less—the one and only place to shop in Morris for just about anything, at the time) that was imbued with personal meaning, in connection with the particulars of our fledgling friendship. Thanks to the timing of my birthday in relation to our meeting, I know for sure (even though I can’t remember the details) that before we had even known each other for a week, we had already started hanging out and playing cribbage together—the activity that would remain “our thing” in the months to come, repeatedly keeping us awake and having fun together until all hours of the night. The activity through which we would get to know one another, and gradually develop deeper feelings for each other. I know this, because the birthday present that Jen gave me was a cribbage board, while “from” Becca (but obviously picked out by Jen) came a couple of decks of cards to accompany it. The items were simple and inexpensive, but they had an outsized emotional impact on me. I had not expected gifts from these very new friends at all, yet they (but mainly Jen), alone among all the people in my life, had turned up and made me feel cared for on my birthday! I was distinctly charmed by the gesture.

Looking back now, and imagining what had clearly happened behind the scenes, I’m also struck by something else: Back on the 1st, Becca had “dragged” Jen, half-unwilling, to our dorm room to meet these two friends of hers, Dan (Larkin) and Dave (though of course, I ended up not being present). Now, not even two weeks later, Jen had clearly been the one to “drag” Becca out to shop for birthday gifts for one of those friends (not at all unwillingly in this case, but still very much in an “along for the ride” sort of capacity—even to the point of deferring to Jen in the matter of what to get for me)! The turtle had come out of her shell pretty quickly, following our simple-yet-remarkable moment of initial connection. However Jen might have reframed these events in her own mind, years later, they represented the start of something wonderful.

9 Comments

  1. WeeRogue

    Re: the wearing baggy clothing and the relationship to self-esteem… the desire to conceal the general shape of one’s body from others would seem to suggest a desire to avoid being the object of sexual interest. There could be a lot of reasons for that, but most people—and certainly in Jen—I think it would be much easier to argue that this reflects fears about what it would mean for someone else to be interested in you romantically. To the extent to which self-esteem is a single, quantifiable variable (which is largely isn’t, admittedly), I think that would tend to indicate a lower self-esteem rather than a higher one, if anything.

    • WeeRogue

      And yeah, I realize this is rather off point—and maybe you won’t agree—but I just noted it because it strikes me as something very characteristically Jen, which is to say it represents to me the exact sort of lack of self awareness she would often demonstrate in years to come, even while she was often able to be perceptive about other people’s motives and psychological responses. In this case, she didn’t seem to see how this related to her her fears about relating to others. And maybe I’m being too hard on her (she was just a teenager at this point, after all)—but my take is that a person who isn’t worried about what other people think may dress sloppily for simple lack of taking the energy to think about what they’re going to wear, but that’s rather different from specifically choosing baggy clothing for one’s wardrobe.

      • I don’t know. I mean, there could be any number of reasons for choosing to wear baggy clothing, and with the benefit of hindsight (as opposed to my perspective at not-quite-19), it seems likely to me that more than one of those possible reasons were in play for Jen. For instance, it’s perfectly possible that she both wasn’t overly focused on her physical appearance/being seen as attractive in a way that suggests something positive about her self-concept, AND that she was uncomfortable about the prospect of attracting physical/sexual attention, in a way that speaks to fears and insecurities. Two sides of the same coin, in a way. It’s all a bit hard to evaluate nearly 30 years later, on top of being (as you noted) tangential to the point(s) of my story, which is why I didn’t try to analyze it (not at all writing with intent to analyze 18-year-old Jen’s emotional issues here). What matters to me is that at the time, her take on the matter and mine effortlessly jibed with each other (meaning, among other things, that I was just as blind as she was to any nuances beyond what we both perceived).

        Although, also, I don’t think it’s even necessarily clear that she DIDN’T (perhaps) perceive any connection between her “baggy clothes” preferences and her observations about her “turtle” nature, or the way she saw herself as being afraid of other people yet also strongly drawn to them. She didn’t comment on any such perception during our very first conversation, sure, but is that really surprising? And if she understood her social fears as being a separate issue from her “self-esteem”…well, that wouldn’t make her very different from the me of that time, either.

  2. WeeRogue

    Off the top of my head before I go to sleep, the thing about dating in my perception is that it really is filled with people who are sincerely looking to connect with someone else in a meaningful way, but even if that’s also what you want, you run into barriers because 1) even if you’re kinda normal, people are diverse, and it’s hard to find someone who gets you—so all the more so when you’re a little odd; 2) a decent number of folks are just aren’t very good at relationships or connecting with others, either because they’re scarred and traumatized, or they just don’t have very good communication skills; or 3) a lot of people just aren’t that intellectually engaged with the world, and/or they aren’t particularly bright. Somewhere in there is the reason a lot of profiles are so vague and generic, with people proclaiming the desire to find some kind of soulmate or LTR, but with no effort made to actually share something there about who they are, and no indication they’ve given much thought to what sort of person they might actually be able to connect with.

    • This all strikes me as true, but again, somewhat tangential to the thoughts that I was trying to express about dating. After all, the factors that you’re alluding to are all the case regardless of the context in which a proto-relationship develops–be it the (to my mind) very forced and artificial “dating” scenario, or just meeting and interacting in an unplanned and agenda-free way. It’s just that in one scenario, you’re sitting across from a virtual stranger and trying to figure out how to relate to them without even knowing whether or not you actually want to, and interrogating yourself about how it’s going and whether it has a future or not, etc….whereas in the other scenario, you’re just going about your life, and when/if you find yourself drawn to or connecting with a particular person, you start choosing to spend more time with that person, and a relationship develops organically.

      • WeeRogue

        Yeah, if it’s off point, it’s just that my response to the actual points were along the lines of, “Ah, that makes sense” and “interesting,” and I didn’t have much to expound on. 🙂

        You met Jen in college, of course, where specific details about the context—distance from home, lack of pre-existing friendships and openness to new ones, new sense of independence, and general premise that this is a time in life to change and define oneself—made a romantic relationship developing organically much more probable than it is in almost every subsequent life context that tends to follow. Going forward from college, there are additional constraints on time as people try to support themselves financially, and many fewer people you might bump into are even open to romantic or sexual connections (often because they’re already in monogamous relationships).

        Maybe it would be different if I suddenly found myself in a college-like environment again, but my subsequent experiences with relationships make me incredibly grateful I’m not limited to developing relationships from whatever organic connections I might find moving through life. Dating your coworkers is full of pitfalls. Asking people out who you are already activity partners or something with also has potential to mess up the connection. What else even is there, so far as meeting people? Bars? No thanks. Good online dating systems give you a ton more info about a person—you’re not limited to knowing only what they look like and what is obvious from the immediate context—and you know for sure they’re available for dating and at least consider you a potential prospect. Moreover, if they aren’t at least potentially interested in me romantically, I don’t even end up wasting my time much at all. The Internet is perhaps the best thing that ever happened to dating, IMO (though unfortunately, its effectiveness is constantly under attack by people trying to monetize it!) Anyway, I realize you’re talking about whether or not there’s a presumed context of dating and not about the difference between “real life” and Internet dating… but unfortunately, I don’t think there’s any universe where relationships can with reasonable ease emerge organically, outside of specific special “habitable zones” like college.

        But even then, I’ll forever sing the praises of the “not having to guess about whether the relationship is potentially romantic or not” that you get when there is a social construct like “dating” imposed upon it. For me, dating isn’t “sitting in front of a virtual stranger,” or at least, no more so than any other meeting of another person. I mean, all relationships start between strangers, right? Seems like the main difference is whether the ambiguity about whether there’s potential romantic interest is gone, which to me is a major plus.

        PS: Apparently you don’t have to capitalize “Internet” anymore, but I did it anyway.

  3. Insofar as you’re basically saying that hoping to meet someone more “organically” is wildly unrealistic outside of specific and largely non-replicable circumstances (like freshman year of college), obviously I agree. (I said as much in my post, even.) And yes, of course, online dating makes things possible that weren’t possible without it, and is therefore a good thing. (That doesn’t mean I don’t still loathe it, but it goes without saying that it’s better than hoping/trying to somehow meet someone without it, at least in the adult world.) By no means do I actually think there’s a better way; I just really, really WISH there were, because the existing way seems totally bonkers to me.

    Before I had any experience of it, I thought that the “not having to guess about whether the relationship is potentially romantic or not” feature of meeting people in an explicitly “dating” context would, as you say, be a really big plus. In practice, though, I’ve found that (at least for me) it doesn’t really work that way. Sure, the context makes it a given that the relationship is “potentially” romantic, but there’s still just as much uncertainty over whether or not it will ACTUALLY become romantic, plus extra uncertainty over whether it will even become a relationship at all, and all of that uncertainty applies not only to my wonderings about how the other person feels, but also to my own feelings and desires…but in spite of all of this uncertainty, I have to make some kind of decision about whether to continue pursuing it or not, because I either have to continue with the artificiality of “dating” the person or not; there’s no third option of just seeing how the relationship develops over time, without forcing it.

    I contrast this with my experiences of developing romantic relationships as a teenager. Three different times, between the ages of 16 and 19, I found myself in situations where I had developed romantic feelings for a female friend but wasn’t sure if she felt the same way towards me or not, and I had to work up the courage to ask. Each time, I was extremely anxious and uncertain (though notably less insecure on each successive occasion). But at least, in those situations, I knew, with no ambiguity, what *I* wanted, how *I* felt. I also *got to* each of those situations simply through interacting with friends—no awkward social rituals, no time devoted to “trying on” people with whom I had no connection, no premature forced scrutiny of the proto-relationship, no worry about the *other person’s* possible expectations that I might not be fulfilling. Like, yes, of course all relationships start between strangers, but in normal, non-dating situations, I never spend an evening at a restaurant alone with a stranger, TRYING to forge a relationship, from next to nothing. I just interact with people in various contexts as part of my life, with no specific intent or expectations, and maybe over time we develop some level of connection with each other or maybe we don’t, and if we don’t, then that person is just another human I know, no different from anyone else who isn’t specifically a friend. This is how basically all non-romantic relationships begin (because it’s just how humans naturally interact). All I’m saying is that I wish it were feasible (as an adult) for romantic ones to work the same way, y’know?

    • WeeRogue

      It’s funny… what you say about how the experience for you is “trying to forge a relationship” gives me some clue, maybe, about how we’re seeing it differently. To me, dating doesn’t feel more forced than meeting someone another way. The rituals differ, but obviously all forms of meeting other people have social rituals (which in my experience in either case can be helpful or tedious, depending), and all potential romantic connections require an experience sooner or later of imagining the different kinds of relationships I might have with the other person and attempting to weigh what the other person wants versus what I want to assess compatibility. Perhaps our experiences differ so much because I approach dating in more or less the same way as I approach an “organic” interaction—as a chance to have an experience of some kind that I have an expectation will be entertaining, educational, or otherwise worthwhile for its own sake, come what may. If I were approaching a date as a kind of contrived exception to regular life, or thinking “this is either going to be more or less a waste of time unless a relationship emerges,” or some lesser form of that, well, I grant I would find that pretty awful… and I can see how just going about my life without thinking about romantic relationships until I start to consider a particular person wouldn’t constantly set me up for disappointment in the way that a date, and some expectation of a deep connection that is unlikely to materialize, might. I suppose it might also be a bit easier to say “no” to spending time with someone when there was no initial expectation of dating—in that the other person wasn’t asking, so you don’t have to think about how they feel when you don’t pursue it, anyway.

      [And this is a bit off point, because these things are relevant to all attempts to form romantic connections in some capacity, but another strange thing is that I’m actually sort of grateful for the difficult parts of dating. It’s weird, as I don’t have any sense of that gratitude with, say, job interviews, which cause me a lot of anxiety that I loathe! I can’t tell you why it’s different with romance, but it feels much more managable there, and like a part of a journey of growth I’m on. I like that it forces me to better set limits, communicate more effectively, become more compassionate in how I treat others, and grapple with self-acceptance and rejection.]

      Also, I still don’t get emailed when you reply to my comments—not sure why that would be.

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